CF Moto Scooter Problems...Episode Three. Any Ideas?

"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
03/14/2019 at 12:04 • Filed to: Two Wheels Bad

And the scooter is dead for a third time now...I’m running out of things to replace.

If you’ve not been following my CF Moto saga, here’s a recap:

First Revival

Acquired in November from a fellow Gambler 500 team member. I replaced the battery, the carburetor, and learned the starter solenoid was installed backwards by a previous owner . It sat for roughly two years without running and I made a gamble that I can make the old fuel burn again. While I was successful in that, I made two critical errors:

1. I didn’t replace the fuel filter.

2. I rode it every day for a month, not really ever allowing it to get to running temperatures.

Despite that, the scooter was good for 75mph, impressive acceleration, and it all around it ran absolutely perfectly. I felt I had myself a good score and with actual fresh fuel I’d probably even break 80mph. I proceeded to daily it for a month, taking it everywhere.

I then tried to take it on a 200 mi ride and the engine sputtered to a stop while I was going 60mph. The stall was so bad that it temporarily locked the rear tyre, skidding me to a stop. I was able to get it going again and nursed it back home. When I got back home, it wouldn’t start again.

It did start the next morning, but as a test, I let it run for 5 minutes then shut it off. Like the night before, it wouldn’t start. I quickly learned that the engine just wouldn’t start at all unless it was ice cold.

Fixing my original mistake

I made sure I ran all the bad fuel out of the tank and made sure the tank wasn’t rusty. Then I filled it with good fuel.

I then replaced all the fuel lines, the fuel filter, and the carburetor. I then installed a pod filter. I also closed off the crankcase vent to the airbox. Instead, the crank vents out into the outside. The original problem with not being able to start after getting hot remained, but at least I was no longer fouling my air filter and carb with particulate matter (air filter material) and oil. Top speed was about 40. Figured I would get more speed from restricting the pod filter, but first I really wanted to address the problem with not being able to restart with a warm engine.

Take three

I decided to replace basically everything else I didn’t touch. I took the panels off and replaced the air filter so I can ditch the pod filter and go back to the factory setup (I still have the crank venting to the outside, though) and not have to jet the carb. Then I replaced any old vacuum lines that remained. All this work resulted in no change. It does cold starts well, but introduce any heat and it’s dead. The engine tries to fire, but it just won’t.

You can get it to start on starting fluid, and then it will go on to run like it’s misfiring and it’ll die as soon as you stop moving...then fail to start again.

Only thing I haven’t replaced is the spark plug (because the bloody thing has a spark plug that requires a bigger socket than the one I have for my smarts), but I fear it’ll be a waste of time.

Is there anything else I’m missing or do you think the spark plug will be my magic bullet?

This was supposed to be an easy project, but it certainly has taught me a lot about motorcycle/scooter repair! If the spark plug doesn’t fix it I’ll probably get rid of it. I’m just not sure how much I would be able to trust it at that point..I really don’t want to do that. When this thing was running well it was good for a comfortable 75mph and it was awesomely agile, not just for a scooter, but for a long motorcycle, period. I love this thing, but if I can’t trust it to get me more than a mile down the road it has to go.

For a TL;DR - here’s everything I replaced:

- Battery
- Fuel Lines
- Vacuum Lines
- Carburetor (built in electric choke)(2 times)
- Air Filter
- Fuel Filter
- Oil
- Fuel

Only thing I can think to replace now is little sparky..

DISCUSSION (37)

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 12:12

Ouch, good luck. Also unrelated, but did you hear of this? I know you’re in Chicago so thought you might be interested: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/potential-chicago-midwest-oppo-meet-1833289164

bob and john > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 12:25

spark plug and the coil sending the spark.

Mercedes Streeter > HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
03/14/2019 at 12:27

I did! I’m in!

Mercedes Streeter > bob and john
03/14/2019 at 12:29

I guess it’ll be worth a shot! Time to invest in a greater variety of sockets to play with.

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 12:40

Wow, a cheap Chinese knock-off is being difficult? Whoda thunk it?!?!

Of course, my smugness is totally fake, because you know how well things have gone with my actual Helix.

Spark plug and coil would be my next thing. They’re cheap. Buy the socket you need. Y ou’ll run into that size on other things over the years, so it’ll be worth the investment.

GLiddy > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 12:41

I think you’ll find you have an ignition problem. Maybe the ignition module. I don’t believe these Chinese bikes can ever last very long. I’ve picked up a couple over the years, and the quality just isn’t there. I wouldn’t put much more time into it if I were you. See if you can find a Honda or Yamaha that fits the bill. Just my 2c.

punkgoose17 > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 12:41

I’d check the spark plug and coil. (Pre-gapped spark plugs is a lie, I learned that the hard way. I need to fix that this weekend.)

The other possible culprit is too much cylinder wall wear, but if your oil is okay you are good.

Decay buys too many beaters > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 12:52

It’s probably valves.

Check the valve clearance, on a single if it isn’t in spec it will cause starting issues.

Mercedes Streeter > Decay buys too many beaters
03/14/2019 at 13:11

Mmmm...valve job at 1,000 miles. If that’s the case I definitely want out of these Chinese bikes and never come back. lol

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 13:13

Shots fired! But yeah...it could be your Helix where you did basically everything and it still doesn’t run right. *gulp*

Think I’ll give it one last shot with the spark. If that doesn’t work, to Facebook it goes!

Decay buys too many beaters > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 13:15

Lol, you’re assuming they were ever in spec to begin with.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 13:24

Sounds like you need and Aprilia ;)

Mercedes Streeter > Decay buys too many beaters
03/14/2019 at 13:25

I may be a little naive about my two wheelers of questionable origin..

Mercedes Streeter > CaptDale - is secretly British
03/14/2019 at 13:32

But but...doesn’t it run even worse than my scooter? :O

Decay buys too many beaters > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 13:34

I’ve had H onda scooters that needed adjustment in the first 2000 miles, little motors can wear weird early on.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 13:35

But it is at least 50 times more pretty

Mercedes Streeter > Decay buys too many beaters
03/14/2019 at 13:45

That’s definitely encouraging. This project shall continue! ...At least until I fully lose trust in it.

A small amount of w hite smoke also comes out the back when it’s running and I can’t seem to get it to go away (I know bikes may smoke when you let them sit for a while but the smoke should go away after running a little). Coolant level is still full so idk what’s causing it.

Decay buys too many beaters > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 13:53

Depends, it’s cold out and sometimes rudimentary cooling systems never allow bikes to warm up. Example my G rom (which is air cooled) doesn’t warm up enough in the winter to remove moisture from the oil which results in white sludge all over the inside of the crankcase and on the dipstick. I’ve run it for 30+ minutes and the oil doesn’t get above 70C.

Mercedes Streeter > CaptDale - is secretly British
03/14/2019 at 13:54

Kinja'd!!!

And I guess I could put a Predator engine in it. lol

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 13:58

There’s also the CDI box you could try. Those are also cheap. There are two versions, one with a round plug, and one with the rectangular plug. One is the earlier version, and one is the later version. I forget which is which.

If my buddy can’t get the Helix going (I haven’t even asked him about it in a couple months), I’m just going to dump it as-is at a loss. I don’t even want to look at that stupid thing anymore.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 14:00

I think keeping the Rotax would be a better bet

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 14:19

I’m sort of getting to that point with this scoot. I haven’t been able to ride it in any real capacity since it came to a grinding halt in December. And I’m reluctant to keep spending money on it given the extent of everything I’ve replaced thus far and its persistence to spit out white smoke (which makes me think bad headgasket, but the coolant bottle isn’t emptying...so???). But I think I’ll give it one last try

Pickup_man > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 14:22

+1 on the coil, coils that are on their way out will give the same symptoms that you’re seeing, start/ run good when cold, and get progressively worse as they get hot.

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 15:08

A plug, coil, and cdi box can all be had for about $20, maybe $25, total. If those don’t fix it, I’d ditch the turkey.

The Chinese stuff is really not made to last. Yesterday (I think) I found a Chinese 250 Reflex knock-off for sale in Lombard for $200. It was pulled apart into pieces ... IT HAD 15 MILES ON IT!!!!

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 15:15

I saw that too, it’s been for sale for quite a few months. I mean, maybe if dude put it back together he could sell it. Few people like putting bikes together, even fewer of them want to do it for a Chinese bike. lol

Well, if I do get it to work at least I’ll know everything else about the scoot’s good since I replaced it all. :)

Mercedes Streeter > Pickup_man
03/14/2019 at 15:16

That makes me feel a lot better. This thing has been disappointing me over and over again with how fixes just aren’t working. Unlike other projects I’ve gotten rid of after little effort, I really want this one to work! :)

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 15:29

I will also admit that the thought has crossed my mind to turn that 15 mile scooter into a Gambler...but uh...I may not be the Chinese bike enthusiast I used to be.

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 15:31

Don’t do it. You’ll do a bunch of work, spend more money, and still have a pile of crap.

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 15:35

Exactly...From my research, CF Moto is one of the better Chinese brands. Considering the problems I’ve had with mine, I can’t imagine how much worse things can get. Belts breaking and electrical gremlins for days? lol

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 15:39

Think about it this way. That scooter was so badly screwed up, that somebody had to tear it apart with 15 miles on it.

Contrast that with my Zuma 125, which despite me running full throttle for about 470 of the 492 miles I rode at the Gambler in 2 days, did not even burn a single drop of oil.

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 15:44

I still wonder what the heck warranted tearing the whole thing down to the frame. lol

You make a great case for selling both of Chinese scoots and replacing with one decent Japanese scooter. Is your Zuma efi?

If I didn’t like the looks of the Helix body so much I would have sold the CF Moto after the night it tried to strand me. But it looks like a real Helix wouldn’t be that fun, either. I’m a regular lurker on Helix forums and they seem to either work really well or be absolute basket cases.

Pickup_man > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 16:27

Constant problems with seemingly no solution are extremely discouraging and draining, the best and hardest thing I’ve started to learn, and am still working on, is taking the time to diagnose problems and components before just replacing them.*

My initial way of thinking feels a lot like yours; it’s acting like A, which is most likely because of B, so I’ll replace B, but then B doesn’t fix it. Not that replacing B didn’t make it better, but now when I think the problem is B, I take B and check everything on it to make sure it’s working properly. I’ve seen a lot of goofy things where I swore it was one thing and after fighting that thing forever, it turns out to be something different entirely** .

*Unless those components are super cheap, or I’m positive that’s what’s causing the problem.

**Short example. I did a marathon rebuild on my 3 wheeler engine to get it ready for some trail riding out in the Black Hills. I ran it just for the minute it took to get it into the truck and it ran great. When I unloaded at the trail head it ran terrible, I swore it had to be the carb and jetting due to elevation change so we spent half the day running back to town to get new jets and change them out, none of which solved the problem. I ended up riding double with Dad for the rest of the weekend. When I got home I took a closer look at it and within five minutes figured out what the problem was. One of the locking nuts on the valve adjustment screws had worked itself loose and the adjustment screw itself had backed out.

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 16:37

I would guess that it being a piece of crap caused it to be torn down :D

My Zuma is efi, and I love that little guy. For me it came down to not wanting a project, I just wanted to ride. I didn’t mind that Elite being janky and cantankerous, because I bought it to monkey around with and it was super cheap. When that red Kymco started giving me trouble though, that’s when I said screw it, sold them both, and bought the Zuma. At the end of the day, when I just want to clear my head and tool around a bit, I don’t want to f#@% around with cheap junk. I just want it to start up and go.

I would recommend selling the Chinesium and getting a decent Japanese scooter. I would even suggest spending the money to get one with EFI. All Zuma 125s are efi, they never sold them with a carb.

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 16:54

I’m actually seriously considering that. At this point I wouldn’t even mind a lower displacement scoot so long as it’ s from a reputable brand. I already have four other road ready bikes that can give me oodles of speed if I want it, so realistically I have no need to have an Interstate capable scoot. Have any extra scoots laying around that you don’t need? ;)

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 17:51

Ha! No, I only have a scooter like substance to spare :)

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher
03/14/2019 at 18:14

Drat! I think I’m going to make it a goal to end this riding season with a 125, 180, or 200cc Yamaha Riva to replace the two Chinese clones. I really really wanted one of those last year but I was silly and was obsessed with scooters that could theoretically hang with traffic on I-94. Not anymore! I’d rather have the slow bike fast experience like that $100 Elite you used to have .

Should be a win win. Get rid of two problem bikes, have one cool retro scooter from a reliable brand, and have more garage space.

shop-teacher > Mercedes Streeter
03/14/2019 at 18:53

Those Rivas are cool, and not too pricey either. Don’t forget about the Elite 150, with pop-up headlight.

As much as I love riding my scooter, the last thing in the world I’d ever want to do, would be to ride one on I-94!